Tomorrow will be a as big of a day as this past election as the CA supreme court begins to hear arguments about the passage of proposition 8. Regardless of where you stand on the issue you must admit it is frightening to think about the power our court systems have and are gaining and the power the voice of the people is losing.
I pray that proposition 8 is upheld so the balance of power remains in our judicial system.
A new big day
America’s push towards China
I have a friend from China. I met her eight years ago while she was doing a study abroad, in Washington states, when she was in High school for a year. I can vividly recall her explaining how the Chines government has an ethics subject for each grade. They learn things like: don’t cheat, be honest, take care of your parents as they age, the value of family, why having only one child is a good thing, and why abortions are good. Since the Chines government mixes in questionable values with lots of good ones, students don’t question that the ethical lesson is not right or an appropriate subject for the government to teach.
I remember thinking at the time, What!?! A government is teaching their rising generation the value system they want them to buy into. Even if part of that value system is a matter of debate and not a universal ethical value. At the time I was so thankful that I lived in a country that didn’t do this. China is a great place, but they have a ways to go before they measure up to the freedoms we enjoy in America.
When I recalled this story recently I took a deep foreboding breath as I realized America is pushing towards the Chines way. A way I saw as backwards and manipulative eight years ago and still see it that way today.
Obama is quickly moved toward repealing the Defense of Marriage Act which would lead to overturning the laws passed in 45 states to protect marriage and leading to the legalization of gay marriage on the federal level.
We need to take a stand and let our representives in Congress know how we feel about that. Please take a moment to contact them. Let them know that they need to protecting the will of voters all across the country. A few judges in Massachusetts and Connecticut should not to force same-sex marriage on the entire nation.
The Argument for GOD
My husband TA’s a class. Last week they discussed the philosophical argument for God. A frequent approach that professors take is giving both sides of the argument in an unbiased manner and then working at finding holes in the argument. There are other approaches too, but they each include presenting the argument in a fair way. The professor didn’t take this approach. Rather he presented the argument for God as weak and rather ridiculous. Even if this is how the professor personally felt, he was abusing his power as a professor in the way he presented the argument. Regardless of whether this particular argument for God is good or not is irrelevant. The professor had crossed a line. I would argue because it is socially acceptable to degrade religious thinking.
Now I find this to be sad and unfortunate. But what was more alarming to me was this; as student presented their thought on what made the argument good the professor would restate there question in a silly voice that brought laughter from the rest of the class and then would say, “that doesn’t work.” Never explaining why it didn’t work, just shutting the student down. That is one way to discourage class participation. Does anyone else remember being told, “there is no such thing as a bad question”? Not the case in this class. He made fun of the students because they were defending the existence of God. The blog Support the Traditional Family has a post called the parable of the popcorn
The post says,
As I have read about issues regarding the family, I have been struck by how easily many people degrade religion, marriage, and children. They equate fervent faith with uneducated people who don’t know any better. They present marriage as a bigoted institution that keeps people from full equality. And they present having and raising children as a waste of money, time, and talents. But I see them as…those who build their homes and our nation with great love.
My husbands experience in this class is just one example that affirms this statement.
Old-Fashioned Values
Recently I have been thinking about infidelity. A friend knew her husband had become close with another women. This women was married as well. When my friend spoke to the husband of the women she expressed her concern that their spouses friendship was leading to infidelity, he laughed. She took this to mean that infidelity is just part of life and to be expected in a marriage. This is not where old-fashioned family values fall. My friend loves her husband, but doesn’t care to share him in this way. So who is right, my friend with her idea of being faithful to your husband or wife or this womens husband’s idea that infidelity is part of the game?
My friends marriage in not healthy. As a result she needing lots of help in life and is not able to give back to society. On the other hand I am surrounded by married couples in a committed relationship. Their excess energy goes back into strengthening society rather then fixing their marriage.
“Could it be that we have been slowly desensitized into thinking that high moral standard are old-fashioned and not relevant or important in today’s society?”
I hearty would say YES to Dalton’s question. It is not fashionable or popular to stand up and be perceived as a prude, but it is important to do.
There are good people in same sax relationships that are faithful to each other….but I am not trying to say there are not. My point is that 50 years ago no one would have a debate about wither it was ok for a married couple to be in an open relationship. Those old-fashioned family values were seen as good. They still are good. Having marriage defined as between a husband and a wife still is a good thing. Not wanting to broaden that definition is one way people are trying to protect a higher moral standard. Even if much of society has become “desensitized into thinking that high moral standards are old-fashioned and not relevant.”
What I fear most about the gay agenda?
There are those on one end of the spectrum who are attracted to those of the same sex and there are those on the other end of the spectrum who are attracted to those of the opposite sex, but there are also many who fall somewhere along a continuum between these two extremes. To add to this often confusing idea people sexuality is somewhat fluid so they can migrate along this continuum too.
To the fault of many parents this is a topic often misunderstood and not addresses. The power of suggestion is a strong thing. Teaching about homosexuality in the class room will encourage more experimentation with ones sexuality. If homosexuality is taught in our school system then indirectly teachers will be saying whichever end of this spectrum you fall on is what dictates who you are attracted too and act on that. But for those who don’t fall on either extreme, will be encouraged indirectly to fool around until they decide which they like better. I hate the fact that sex is seen as an “activity”, something to do rather then an expression of love, by many. But I also think same sex sexual relationships are wrong. We should not encourage our kids to pick whichever side they want. Rather parents need to step it up, teach there kids that sexuality is a fluid thing. If they don’t find themselves on one of the other extreme, in most cases, they have a choice to foster their heterosexual side. Though being gay is not wrong, we should not act on those desires because the traditional family strengthens our society and is better overall for our country, communities and homes.
There are fabulous gay couples out there doing good things, but the traditional family does more for the greater good. Keep the education of homosexuality out of the schools. The only way to do this is to protect traditional marriage (by passing laws like Proposition 8).
The Fight for Traditional Marriage in Main Stream Media
I heard about the debate on marriage twice today in the main stream media. It got me a riled up. The first was a rebroadcast of Fresh Air on NPR. Terry Gross interview with Paul Weyrich. Paul Weyrich said, “when you have a breakdown of the family you have enormous societal consequences.” I don’t think we understand all of the kinds of consequences that come from this breakdown. This reminded me of a post made by Beetle Blogger that she referred to it as brain candy. In this post she shares a Libertarian view on the subject of legalizing same sex marriage. It is a very interesting read. Though the the conclusion by this libertarian is inconclusive. It makes you want to be careful before we go changing our traditional definitions. Traditional marriage is a good thing for our society.
In the Fresh Air interview, Weyrich went on to say, “Government should be directed so that it support the notion of the traditional family.” I really know little to nothing about Weyrich, and so I don’t know how he would recommend doing this, but I do think our government should support traditional family.
The second incidents of hearing about traditional marriage was on CNN tonight. They were talking about the battle to overturn Proposition 8 in California. Specifically that the California Attorney General, Brown is calling on the court to reject the initiative. I am not a TV kind of girl so this may be talked about often in the media this way, but it got me all worked up. I want to make sure both side of the issue are shown. I had to hop on line to say traditional family matters. It makes our society stronger.
What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas…
I recently drove through Vegas. Their current add campaign is working because as I drove by the tag line “what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas” floated through my head. This is a disturbing marketing scheme that flies in the face of traditional family values. This tag line seems to encourage promiscuity, excessive drinking and uncontrollable spending. None of which is good on a marriage or brings lasting happiness. Rather large hang overs, sad pocketbooks and regret. The moment was great, but that moment passes and there is often a larger mess to deal with then prior to the reckless behavior.
Traditional family values, provide a safe place for kids to grow up, a loving supportive marriage and so much more. The traditional definition of marriage is tightly nit to traditional family values.
There are many non traditional families today, but the ideal is a mother and father with children. A child flourishes best when they have both a mom and a dad. (Plus parenting is so much better when you have another who gives support and help in regards to the children.)
I have a cousin who is divorces with two kids. Since becoming divorced she has completed her BA and Medical school and currently is working on her residency. I marvel at what she has accomplished as a single parent. She has a lot of help with her kids. In particular from a brother who really played the surrogate dad through medical school. But it would be so much easier for all involved if there had been a dad not just involved, but there doing that dads and husbands to, support my cousin and her kids. Instead they have been in a less then ideal situation and sadly to the detriment of her kids.
By no means do I think that all gays and lesbians are partying it up out there, but by allowing gay and lesbian couples to marry we are braking down traditional family values. Which have been a strong hold in our society and others literally since the beginning of man. Obviously sticking to the traditional definition of marriage does not guarantee perfect marriages and situations for all kids, but it at least provides the potential for that to happen.
Wow who knew Alice in Wonderland was so insightful
I have to say I have become a follower of this great blog. It tends to be filled with what is happening since the election, the author is prolific. Typically I can find a few interesting threads that I at least like to follow is not add my two cents too. But this author also is a talented writer.
But really I want to help make you aware of two very interesting post recently made. The first was a link to libertarians blog. The second was a parallel to Alice in Wonderland. If you have time I would encourage you to read both.
Civil Protest vs. Harassment
Their have been many sad events over the past two weeks since the election. I am more and more convinced that the opponents to Prop 8 have quickly crossing the line from civil protest to harassment. How sad it is to watch as people have been persecuted for their beliefs. To taking part in the great democratic process of our nation and then be treated so poorly. This is not what are country is about. Rather then saying they have gone to far many government officials are taking the side of the opponents. They can express their opinion that they are opposed to Prop 8, but they should also stand up and protect all the people they serve by pointing out that the opponents have gone to far. The media does it too, slanting the stories in favor of the opponents. It is simply infuriating to watch.
For a group that is begging for tolerance they sure are untolerant of those who disagree with them. But it is more than tolerance or the lack there of. It is ugly harassment. Stop it!!! Stop it!!! Express your opinion, try to persuade people to see why prop 8 is unfair, but don’t bully others onto your side.
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Still not cool to say yes
Even though more than half of California’s population voted to uphold the traditional definition of marriage it still is not acceptable to stand up and say you are in favor of its passage.
Anyone have any theories as to why?
At first I thought it was people being polite not dancing in the street over the victory, but rather respecting the fact that some people lost and were hurt by the outcome. Later I conclude it was fear of being persecuted for taking a stand. But honestly I am not sure. There are still many actively making a stand on traditional marriage but it is not helping them win in a popularity contest. Other ideas?
Forcing ones morals on others
I had a conversation about Prop 8 on Friday night and what has happened since the election. We discussed what the “tolerant,” no on prop 8 crowd has done since Tuesday’s loss. But it also involved talking about what our founding fathers meant when they originally set up the constitution. This was because one of the people that was involved in the discussion is a historian by trade. He brought up some very interesting points. The constitution is actually meant to protect minorities.
We all seemed to agree that the LGBT is seeking social acceptance of their lifestyle. The historian asked, “so is it OK to force our morals on someone else?” Meaning is it OK for those who think sex should only be something shared between heterosexual couples and force that belief on others? Humm. Here is the point that has stuck out with me. But isn’t the LGBT trying to force their morals on the rest of the United States? So one or the other group is going to have to accept the others moral code. For whatever reason I find this to be a profound thought that I have continued to mull over. I am sure I will continue to do so.
To fight a good fight
Wow, it is done. I am just in relieved it is over.
I think prop 8 brought out the best in many people, and the worst in others. People stood up for what they believed on both sides, exercised their freedom of speech. I think both sides gave all they could. I hope many come away better educated about the gay community and their side of things. There are many wonderful same-sex couples out there doing good things in society. Hopefully people also gained a better understanding why the traditional family is important and why people fought so hard to preserve marriage between one man and one woman.
It was a very emotional ridden debate. It still is; what will happen to those same-sex couples who got married over the past few months? Who knows. Those four judges should take some of the responsibility for the mess they have created.
There will be other states and other battels as the gay rights movement fights to gain more acceptance in society. At least today traditional marriage has won. Thanks to all who have commented on this blog over the last month. Regardless of which side you sat on, your words have made this a stronger tool.
Sex, Lies and Videotape….
This is a great post from RadDad I would recommend taking a moment to read. It is talking about how the no on prop 8 group has been feeding the general public a pack of lies.
I keep reading one amazing post after another out in cyber space. I am going to keep adding links as I find them. This leads to a post made by Abby earth and is about how the NAACP Los Angelos President was bought out by the No to Prop 8 group.
Judges Rule
My latest soap box is about those San Fransisco judges who think they are above the law in their ruling on gay marriage. I am not the only one, this video addresses the topic too. The NPR show, This American Life did a radio show back in March of 2008 titled, The Audacity of Government. The summary of the show follows:
Stories of the Bush Administration, its unique style of asserting presidential authority, and its quest to redefine the limits of presidential power.
It is alarming at how the president is trying to get out of the checks part of our government. I think these judges also are pushing further then what was originally intended. My recent favorite person to quote it Orson Scott Card, here is more from the same article.
In fact, I believe that even those who absolutely believe in gay marriage should join us in opposing any law that is forced on an unwilling majority by the dictates of judges. For those that are wise will recognize that once judges are given such power, that power has as much chance of being used against them as for them.
…Gay marriage has been instituted in three states (so far) only by judicial decree, and without even the pretext that the constitutions involved were ever written with the intention of promoting or allowing gay marriage. This has happened even in a state (California) where a large majority of the people had already rejected gay marriage at the ballot box.
And so we go on. Fighting the fight to preserve traditional marriage. But should it also be a fight to stand up to those who are trying to take more from our judicial system then they should? Vote Yes to 8, and show those judges they have to change laws in a more democratic way.
What are the reasons that we, as citizens, oppose gay marriage?
More from Orson Scott Card from the same article mentioned in my prior post.
1. Homosexuality itself is simply not understood. The available evidence suggests that bisexuality is far more common than exclusive homosexuality, that same-sex attraction may be a phase in some individuals and is merely an option for others
2. Even where individuals feel they have no option except same-sex attraction, we do not understand the cause. The available evidence argues for at most a genetic contribution, with other — probably environmental — causes involved. The best evidence is that children are most likely to be reproductively viable — i.e., able to mate successfully in circumstances likely to produce children who grow up to be reproductively viable — when they have two parents, one of the same sex, and one of the opposite sex.
3. Growing up with opposite-sex parents, but in a society that has normalized and actively promotes one-sex marriages, will certainly affect the children of opposite-sex parents, potentially tipping the balance for children whose sexual identity is still formable.
4. Those who promote gay marriage have already shown a disposition to insist on uniformity of thought on the topic, and will certainly attempt to use the power of the state to suppress any attempt to publicly express a preference for heterosexuality, even (or especially) when such a preference has a religious basis, making this a potential religious-freedom and freedom-of-speech-and-press issue as well.
5. Gay marriage has been instituted in three states (so far) only by judicial decree, and without even the pretext that the constitutions involved were ever written with the intention of promoting or allowing gay marriage. This has happened even in a state (California) where a large majority of the people had already rejected gay marriage at the ballot box.
No serious attempt has been made to consider anything more than a general feeling that “tolerance is good” and “discrimination is bad.” Yet we are proceeding headlong into a vast social experiment whose consequences, as far as we can see, risk serious damage to many in order to create only the most marginal benefit for a few.
What’s the hurry? Why the hostility toward even the slightest opposition? Can’t our opponents wait to get their way until they have persuaded a clear majority? Can’t they listen to people with ideas that are different from theirs?
Wow does anyone else think that is a great summary of why we should vote yes to 8? In particular I find point 5 to the end compelling. But I have already brought this up in a prior post.
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More eloquent than I
Orson Scott Card recently wrote an article that articulated better then I ever could the idea of tolerance. It also gave me hope. We should stand up for what we each feel convicted by. That is part of the democratic process. In particular if we truly are tolerant of each other. I am going to put that parts that apply to tolerance here, but if you like read the whole thing.
…Tolerance implies disagreement — it means that even though we don’t agree with or approve of each others beliefs or actions, we can still live together amicably. When we agree, we aren’t being tolerant, we’re being uniform.
It’s uniformity or submission these former friends wanted, not tolerance at all.
It makes me sad when people are so intolerant that they cannot bear to be friends with anyone who disapproves of some action or opinion of theirs. But I believe that if we could only be friends with people who never disapprove of something we do, we will end up with “friends” who either don’t know us very well, or don’t care about us very much.
…Even if we fail to overturn the current legal movement toward gay marriage, we can treat our opponents politely and kindly, even when they do not extend the same courtesy to us.
…We do not think that any belief system, whether it calls itself a religion or not, should be imposed on other people by law — we won’t impose ours on them, and we won’t let them impose theirs on us or our families.
I hope this gives you some idea of what tolerance really is. He goes on to talk more about why it is good we have this initiative on the ballot. Regardless of how it passes it is important the people have an opportunity to have a say.
Instead, we believe that as long as we are citizens of a free country, changes in the laws and institutions of our society should be made only by common consent, after a free and candid discussion.
We would never try to force our beliefs on an unwilling majority, and we hope that our opponents on this issue will have the same respect for democracy and the Constitution.
In fact, I believe that even those who absolutely believe in gay marriage should join us in opposing any law that is forced on an unwilling majority by the dictates of judges. For those that are wise will recognize that once judges are given such power, that power has as much chance of being used against them as for them.
These judges are not unique. I think other servants of the people have tried to do similar things. Trying to say they is above the law or the law doesn’t apply to them. Thank goodness out country has check and balances. Vote yes to 8. It is one way we can make sure to keep those checks in place.
Things are heating up
I just got an email from my friend. Her neighbor awoke to having the words “vote NO to prop 8” painted on their garage door. They had a yes to prop 8 sign up in their yard. Yesterday I heard about someone who awoke to swastikas painted on their yes signs and home. My friend saw me sign waving with my two little boys the other day and asked if we had rocks thrown at us? Oh course not. But she informed me she know of two incidents where that has happened. Wasn’t it the blacks and people who supported the blacks having equal rights who had rocks thrown through their window, mean signs burned into their lawns….Ironic when it is the opponents to prop 8 who are saying we are bigots. Possibly it is happening on both sides and I only hear about what is happening to the yes group.
Show some restraint. Be tolerant. Let each side express their opinoin. That is what our country is about.
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Slow the tide, vote YES on 8
I read an article last night that NPR did back in June. It left me with a sinking feeling. Someone had mentioned it to me and so I log on and read it. Kinda funny I think I heard it back in June when it was on air, and had a similar impression at the time. I am a huge NPR fan. I am a member and love there programming. This article was no exception. A well produced story about the collision of gay rights and religious liberties. There are actually two stories done within a day of each other. The one called Gay rights, religious liberties: a three-act story was what I found particular interesting. Totally worth your time to read. Basically it talks about how religious groups are losing their religious freedoms to the gay rights movement. And it is true. I can’t see all of the way religions are going to be impacted by the gay movement, but impacted they will be. So ironic when you think why people boarded the May Flower. I want to be able to worship what and how I want. I fear how my religious liberties will continue to be impacted over time by the ray rights movement.
The passage of prop 8 will only slow the tide. I hope slow it significantly. Slow the tide, vote Yes on 8.
text books too
In my post happily ever after has changed… I mentioned the gay wedding field trip with a first grade class in San Fransisco. This was reported in The San Fransisco Chronicle. A wedding is not academic in nature. I have to say I don’t want my kids to go on a field trip to a heterosexual wedding either. You add the moral elements I personally have, and I question the public education system. Granted we learn from the article that kids can opt out of these kinds of field trips and likely I would have had my children opt out of this event, but it is likely that text books will be effected too. Equal number of reference to heterosexual and homosexual relationships will have to be made. Think about it, for ever story problem like, “Mom has $5 and dad has $3. How much money do they both have?” There will have to be a problem like, “Dad one has $4 and dad two has $7…” How confusing for kids. You may think, “OK California is going to have to figure this out.” But it will impact other states, because publishers are not likely to create two editions. California voters will impact what is being brought into classrooms across the country.
If this becomes reality publishers should have references based on the percentage of homosexual population. (According to various studies 3% to 5% of the united states are homosexual. California likely has a higher percentage then this number.) But still if this happens lets depict and realistic reality rather then 50/50. Hopefully we don’t have to get there. This is done by voting yes to Prop 8.
Isn’t France supose to be the liberal ones
I just returned from my friends home for lunch. We talked about prop 8. because I am so compelled on this topic and thought I would share just one of the things we talked about. I hope it is insightful for you too.
There is a youtube video talking about how France studied out the issue of same-sex marriage and concluded it to BAN same sex marriage. As well as same-sex couples ability to adopt or use of reproductive methods. All in the interest of the children. There is a whole article on research backing up the idea that our children our better off in a home with a father and a mother. Granted people raised by same-sex couples turn out fine, but the research shows what is in children’s best interest. A blogger Troy also has done a great job on collecting some research.
Is it ironic to anyone else the it is France that came up with this conclusion. I have a stereo type that puts the French as open minded to all ways of life. On the more liberal side of social issues. I guess my stereo type is wrong.
Once again I remind you to vote yes to Prop 8. Tell your friends. Get the word out. It makes a differance for us all–not just Californian’s but all of america.
Happily ever after has changed…
One day you will grow up and marry a prince or a princess. You decide. Can you fathom a teaching or girl friend asking your daughter, “do you want to live happily ever after with a prince or a princess? ” It sounds far fetched, and maybe it is in the near future, but will it be in a few years if prop 8 fails. I found this article to be insightful and disheartening. About half way down this article dives into different theories on outcomes of legalized same-sex marriage. The ideas presented in this article are particularly discouraging, because many of them already are happening. The “coming out” day celebration and first grade class gay wedding field trip already shows how close to reality the speculation is.
Failure to pass prop 8 will effect the entire country. I will post more on that later.
Strengthen marriage, protect our kids, vote yes to Prop 8. It matters.
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Standing up for what is right.
I look around and it seems there are more tv adds, big names and signs for no to prop 8. Maybe this is because they have big names donating big sums of money. Regardless I talk with people face to face it seems many are undecided or quietly in agreement with what proposition 8 is about. Why it is hard to stand up for what you know is right?
Elaine S. Dalton shared to following story in a talk she gave in April of 2008.
A young man I know well was elected to be the student body president at a large university. The university sent him to a leadership seminar where student leaders from across the United States gathered in Chicago, Illinois, to be trained and educated. They participated in an initial game outdoors on the college campus so that they could become acquainted with each other. The students were presented with current issues facing today’s youth and were asked to take a position. In response to the issue presented, they were directed to run to several trees in the grassy area marked “strongly agree,” “partially agree,” “strongly disagree,” or “mildly disagree.”
Toward the end of this exercise, the leader asked, “Do you believe in premarital sex?” Without hesitation, this young man ran to the tree marked “strongly disagree.” To his amazement, he was the only one there! All the other student leaders were laughing and pointing at him and saying, “Oh, Jess, you are so funny. We all know you’re not really serious.” At that moment Jess said he knew exactly what he must do and so he loudly declared, “I’m not funny. I’m serious!” There was a stunned silence, and then the group dispersed, leaving Jess standing alone by the tree. He felt out of place and yes, weird. But he wasn’t weird. He was right. And he was not alone. During the week, many of the student leaders came to him privately and said that they wished they had known years earlier what he knew.”
I think it is hard to stand up and say I agree with Prop 8 because it is not the popular thing, neither is it culturally acceptable not to embrace all peoples actions. But that doesn’t excuse us from taking a stand when it isn’t popular.
And so I challenge you all to stand up for what is right. Protect traditional marriage. Vote Yes to 8.
Strengthened traditional marriage
I think this is such a powerful statement that I have to put it on my blog.
Marriage needs to be strengthened, not redefined. Which version of society do you believe? Which do you want? Both versions can’t live together. One version must dominate. This November, we are being asked to choose. Would you like a crystal ball? Massachusetts is on the front lines fighting in the culture war. If prop 8 fails, their fight will be our fight.
http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2008/10/22/its-not-about-inclusion/
Hopefully we do not follow in Massachusetts footsteps. Vote Yes to Prop 8. Make a stand!! Strengthen traditional marriage.
Tolerance
I have a two year old. He is a gashes kid. No matter how I try and explain that it is not nice to make load toots in public he doesn’t get it. And so I have those embarrassing moments with my kid. He now quietly says “excuse me” when a fluff escapes. I don’t care how cute his excuse me is, it is still embarrassing. I don’t think it should be socially acceptable to fart wherever you feel so inclined. But we live in a country where we are expected to be tolerance of everyone’s choices. Granted at two it could be argued that he doesn’t understand his choice.
Wither homosexuality is caused by nurture or nature or a combo of both is not really part of why we should vote for Prop 8. What makes someone homosexual is a total different discussion. But the choice to act out on that drive is just that, a choice. Unlike my two year old those who are choosing to sleep-with, live-with, marry…people of the same-sex are aware they are making that choice. Because of our society we are encouraged to embrace homosexual actions with open arms. But that still doesn’t make it right.
A title is gained from allowing same sex couples to marry. The consequences to society are much boarded then that.
As a side note, I find it ever so ironic that the war cry for those against prop 8 is love, tolerance and acceptance. But not all are living what they preach. There are many incidents of vandalism, theft and even violets against supporting prop 8. It drives me crazy to see damaged or graffiti signs (regardless of what the issue or side is). We live in a country where there is freedom of speech. Let people speak without destroying their statement.
Myths, Facts, FAQ about Prop 8
Here is a great list of frequently asked questions and the answers about Prop 8. You can see the whole document. I found the following two points to be good.
What does a YES vote on Proposition 8 mean?
Voting YES on Proposition 8 does 3 simple things:
It restores the definition of marriage to what the vast majority of California voters already approved and human history has understood marriage to be.
It overturns the outrageous decision of four activist Supreme Court judges who ignored the will of the people.
It protects our children from being taught in public schools that “same-sex marriage” is the same as traditional marriage.
What does a NO vote on Proposition 8 mean?
If Proposition 8 is defeated, the sanctity of marriage will be destroyed and its powerful influence on the betterment of society will be lost. The defeat of Prop. 8 would result in the very meaning of marriage being transformed into nothing more than a contractual relationship between adults. No longer will the interests of children and families even be a consideration. We will no longer celebrate marriage as a union of husband and wife, but rather a relationship between ‘Party A’ and ‘Party B.’ The marriage of a man and a woman has been at the heart of society since the beginning of time. It promotes the ideal opportunity for children to be raised by a mother and father in a family held together by the
legal, communal and spiritual bonds of marriage. And while divorce and death too frequently disrupt the ideal, as a society we should put the best interests of children first, and that is traditional marriage. Voting No on Proposition 8 would destroy marriage as we know it and cause profound harm to society.
The same web site also has a list of myths about prop 8. I find the following two facts to be the most interesting:
Proposition 8 does not discriminate against gays or take away any rights.
If gay marriage advocates want to change the definition of marriage, they should have to put a ballot measure before the voters to do so. This has never happened. Instead, they have gone behind the backs of voters and convinced four activist judges in San Francisco to redefine marriage for all of society. That is the wrong approach.
Is is fears, phobias and obsessions that motivate some to vote yes to Prop 8?
I think many gays want the right to marry, and they do not have an additional motive. i.e. take away religious freedom or having all children taught about homosexuality in school. Many same-sex couples just want to be able to show they love each other by getting married. The list of concerns pro prop 8 have do not motivate homosexuals conviction to not have Porp 8 pass. But even if it is not the motivation there are valid concerns about allowing same-sex marriage. It doesn’t take much to find documented cases of how many of the concerns are valid.
Possible some are motivted to have Prop 8 pass because of phobias and obsessions. But I would say that is the minority. I personally have fears, but not that gays exits and have same-sex partners, rather what will change if Prop 8 is turned down. Vote Yes to Prop 8, it matters.
Here is just one article documenting what is happening out there.
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Freedom of religion
Isn’t that why those pilgrims came here in the first place?
It is likely that voting no on Prop 8 will impact religious freedoms.
I am in favor of traditional family values. Since CA has a law to provides same sex couple the same rights hetoresexutal couples, and prop 8 won’t change this fact. So this Propositions is not about rights and equality, both already exist in California. It is about preseving traditional family values.
My amazing gay cousin
A little more then a year a go my cousin went north to get married to his partner, seeing he couldn’t do the deed here. He is an exceptional individual. A supportive sibling, cousin, uncle, son…wonderful person. The marriage that took place in Canada symbolizes that my cousin and partner are committed to each other and want to be together for the rest of their lives. This is admirably enough. But civil unions would do the same, and the additional consequences to redefining marriage are many and alarming. Traditional marriage is a symbol. As much as I love my cousin, I don’t want what marriage represents historically to change.
Vote yes to 8
Think of a world
I found the following list to be a powerful sum up of why we should protect marriage by voting yes to prop 8
Think of a world where Human Rights Commissions – unelected bureaucrats with unfettered authority – are judge, jury, and executioner of anything they feel is antagonistic speech toward same-sex marriage and its practitioners.
Think of a world where the judicial system relegates long-held religious beliefs to second-class importance behind anti-bias laws and a newly discovered protected class of people.
Think of a world where the public school system is required to teach values and beliefs to your children that may conflict with your own.
Think of the very real threat to your parental rights, your free speech, your freedom of religion.
And think of all the unintended consequences that we cannot even foresee at this time. Where will it end?
It’s your children, your grandchildren, your money, and your freedoms.
Lets work together to protect them.
Tell next time.
Did I mention gays already have rights in California
When I first arrived in California I had no idea that gay and lesbian couples already had rights and benefits as domestic partners in California. The passage of Proposition 8 would not change that. It would simple not call those partnerships marriage.
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The case of the uninformed voter.
I consider myself politically active in one way, and up until this moment, only one. I vote!!! I figure you only have the right to complain about our elective officials and the laws they pass if you vote. If you don’t vote, you don’t have anything backing up your complaints. I was raised in a home where my father was a republican and my mother was a democrat. Starting when I turned 18, I attended the republican caucus with my dad, and then attended the democratic caucus with my mom. This continued for a few years until I found what I personally believed. Even with attending caucuses and voting in every election I can recall since turning 18, I have been guilty of being an uninformed voter. I have voted because of a sign I have seen more frequently, but not really knowing both sides of the issue. And, unfortunately, I am sure I am not alone. I fear that Proposition 8 will NOT pass in California because people will be uninformed as they vote. The more I learn about Proposition 8 the more I am convinced that we should VOTE YES on Prop 8. The reason I am writing this blog is to help inform voters about what passing Proposition 8 will do and what it will NOT do.
And so I begin….
I moved to California in September. I was aware before I arrived that there was measure to define marriage between a husband and wife on the November ballot. Without knowing any other information I figured I would vote yes. I was shocked that the only politics I heard discussed was around prop 8 and that almost all the political signs were also around prop 8. After many discussion, I concluded that I needed to become more informed and that others also needed to become informed about the ramifications of Proposition 8. So I hope over the next few weeks to help educate the general public about proposition 8, and I hope more of us will walk into the voting booth as informed voters on this important subject.
Here is a good video that is rather informative. I hope it helps you learn a bit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI-GjWY-WlA
Busy With Conviction 